yet another templar weapon question

    Hi guys, in today's version (7.8, almost 7,9) does it make higher damage in pve S+S plus bits of GS, or GS plus bits of S+S?

    What about pvp? Is it better GS's range or S+S's crowd control?

    Thanks!

    Depends on what weapon you are able to get a hold of, lets leave extreme weapons out of this.


    For pve there isn't really enough testing done of weaving with gs vs using sword + skill spam, also again not enough testing done of what to socket


    If you have vision weapon then you should use sword for solo stuff (or in group without painter it's very useful) and GS in group (see buffs below)


    https://cdn.discordapp.com/att…2997864226837/unknown.png


    Me personally for both group and solo I socket full crit (I like having increased chance to crit hp leeching skills to self sustain and not rely on a healer and it makes soloing stuff easier) and use vision 1h sword and skill spam without weaving.

    Don’t you swap to GS for Punishment then? Wouldn’t that be more optimal? Or just spam skills with the sword?

    I assumed it was obvious that I did that so I didn't write it

    so in pve you always use S+S, and just change to GS for punishment? What if you only have an ambush weapon?

    Quote from carlesfm

    so in pve you always use S+S, and just change to GS for punishment? What if you only have an ambush weapon?

    When I had ambush sword and ambush gs only I would still use purely sword and swap to GS for punishment (bare in mind this is also with +15 stigmas, before that I was weaving with gs as the skill CD's are much higher)

    If you don't have vision weapon and/or high crit like misto then imo you should stick to GS with hybrid manastones and switch only for Heavy Shield blow + when you need to tank something where u need extra def. You'll switch less and you'll have higher base dmg if ur crit chance is low, then if you get the hang of it and/or get a vision sword you can start using sword more.

    The crit multiplier taken aside, weapon is not taken in account in skill damage calculation, therefore:

    General rule of thumb: for a given attack and crit value, you will always make higher damage in average per skill using the sword instead of great-sword. That statement comes out of the damage formula.

    On a given skill (let's say Ankle Blow), considering a boss with 16K physical def:

    with 30% crit:

    S+S: at 23k attack, you deal 72 305 damages in average

    You need 23.775k attack to reach similar amount with GS.
    with 35% crit:
    S+S: at 23k attack, you deal 75 495 damages in average
    You need 23.87k attack to reach similar amount with GS.
    with 40% crit:

    S+S: at 23k attack, you deal 78 685 damages in average

    You need 23.97k attack to reach similar amount with GS.

    The amount of bonus attack necessary on a GS (~950) is more than what you get as a difference between GS and S+S
    =>+~625 in favor of GS of a maxed-out comparable type (GS ambush + senekta vs S+S double ambush).

    Making better damage in average using GS as a main weapon, if possible, will be only thanks to weaving.

    Disclaimer: These calculation do not take in account crit bonus from collections, nor side effects from divine weapons. Which make things more complicated to compare.

    Overall, if there is any advice to give: play with whatever you prefer, the overall result is comparable, and switching between S+S and GS is anyway necessary to max your damages.

    Edited once, last by Emeryne ().

    have you taken into account fusing GS?

    Quote from carlesfm

    have you taken into account fusing GS?

    He did,

    Quote from Emeryne

    The amount of bonus attack necessary on a GS (~950) is more than what you get as a difference between GS and S+S
    =>+~625 in favor of GS of a maxed-out comparable type (GS ambush + senekta vs S+S double ambush).

    yet idk why would anyone fuse ambush with senekta, that's like 420+264+26 vs 479 + 269 on x2 ambush ... That's 710 vs 748 but he forgot to add the enchantment bonus which differs on one hand vs two hand and that is: 223+36 vs 371 (def is 61+158 vs 101) (259 vs 101) that's adding up. So total diff between ss and GS would be 860-206(654) attack if we compare ambush + ambush(ss) vs ambush fused with ambush(gs). And since on GS you may not be having a crit build u might wanna add attack stones that's about 120~138 (leg/ulti) vs 444~516 crit which is roughly 3% crit chance(depending at what number you actually are, might be higher if ur crit is lower).

    Anyway, me personally with 38% perma crit chance in stats + 1080 from +5 rune and empyrean fury used on CD (total boost to 43% crit) was experiencing crits on actual fights of about ~30 34 % and that made me think having a vision GS with about 6k crit in stats would be more than enough to have good crits in actual boss fights and would boost me more than i could do with a full crit set and vision sword. But since i do not have any of those to actually see the numbers, it's just a theory so i use what i have (x4 +15 ambush) alternating from using more GS to using more S+S depending on how i feel at that time. As i said many times before, try experiencing it yourself and see how you like it more, by the time you get the optimal weapons you will have a lot of experience with both GS and sword.

    Honestly, I'm not sure that make sense to continue this discussion, but for completeness:


    Even if you have 700 of bonus, that's still below the 775 you'd need with 30% crit, or 970 with 40%. The more crit/att you have, the less the crit/attack bonus you have on GS is interesting. With 516 crit bonus, from 30% you reach 32.4%.

    Basically, starting from 30% with S+S, your crit + att GS bonus compensates the crit multiplier loss. At 35%, you are still loosing by ~1k damage in average on Ankle Blow.

    Display Spoiler


    The bigger the diff between your physical attack (from buff/collections) and the mob def is, the better it is for S+S. i.e.: with 15k def or 24k Att, the damage diff increases to 2k.

    Said differently with 35% crit, below 22.5k attack GS seems more interesting, between 22.5k and 23.5k that's roughly equivalent, above 23.5k S+S seems more interesting ... for some boss/mobs. These are big guesstimated ranges, because depending on boss/mob defense, if you have crit damage bonus, vision weapons, chanter buffs or not, painter debuff or not, glad debuff or not, weaving or not etc ... that's completely bullshit.


    There is a reason why nobody actually made the tests: there are way to many things to take in account to be really objective.