For me personally, if the EU version has ANY cash shop element that let's players buy anything other than cosmetic items on top of a subscription, I'm out. Take my 15 bucks monthly, let me buy some cool skins and keep it at that, nothing else.
Thats a very respectable opinion, and I hard agree. but looking at what we have now compared to classic, even classic with p2w is 3000% better
I never stated you are forbidden from speaking your mind, I am merely saying the things you are suggesting are problematic in the context of monetising a game that has the audacity to call itself "free to play". Especially in regards to past experiences we all had with our dear publisher and how they, uh, handle things.
This is obviously always a topic that creates hot takes and yours are served straight out of the lake of fire. So what I am proposing here is: please be more careful around this and don't just spout the first thing that comes to mind.
Anyway this is getting slightly off-topic here so I will not continue any further. Have a nice day and maybe reconsider some things. Otherwise you might make some usually pretty reasonable people upset and label yourself as a troll.
[...] 
adding to the actual topic tho; everyone has a different opinion on when a game would be too p2w for them, for me that line isnt crossed from pretty much everything in the classic database.
The line is crossed for me when I realistically cant just play the game every day and be somewhat competitive, which current 7.7 wont let you at all with all of this: let me copy paste from a comment i did somewhere
it just needs to remove transformations, transformation collections, item collections, runes, odians, Ascension Jam, luna stats, re identification, event-only items, skin skills, minions and cubes.
none of these items are thing you can realistically farm towards by just playing, let alone play another class after an event with an event only skill has passed (???)
All of this also doesnt factor in how much less gear actually mattered in older patches, where you very easily won using 40e gear vs someone using 50e gear if you were the better player.
Edited by Volveremos: 
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but it wont make the game p2w enough for it to matter.
This, my friend, is why I initially suggested you might not be suited to voice those things here.
It is exactly the reason why the retail version deteriorated into its current animated-suspense-state. Saying "it is acceptable" opens leeway for more extreme measures to be taken because it gives the people in charge a reason to believe they are on the right track. And since you, allegedly, played "since release btw" you should know where that road took us.
e: typo found and purged
im just as suited to voice my opinion as any of you.
how about you answer the question I asked instead of dodging it, go on, im waiting for that gamebreaking p2w item they will add to the shop
Even though you seem dead set on thinking AP items will not influence anything (which is wrong, but you are entitled to your ridiculous opinion) those will be the main culprit. Combine that with large amounts of high level mana- and enchantment stones as well as appropriate socketing aids and boom, this will impact PvP for a very long time.
I'm guessing here but let me just say you appear as though you've never played the older versions where the AP grind for PvP gear was real so excuse me when I say you may not be the most qualified person to try and be a nuisance here.
bro, u can literally search "rinnie aion" and get some answers lmao.
I dont think manastones and AP in the shop would be a good thing, dont get me wrong, but it wont make the game p2w enough for it to matter.
And its not even 5% of todays p2w
oh ye i played since release btw
[...]
Edit by Isobel : Taunt
You can get all the items that are in the current cash shop for the retail version ingame too with lots of luck, time and rng, so after your logic the actual cash shop for the retail version isn´t p2w too?
are you trolling? you're comparing AP relics and old enchantment stones to CURRENT shop? im done
I can get all of that from playing, try again
you can do pve at your own pace but most of the players are interested in pvp. Thats where the money will go.
oh yes, tell me more about pvp, I never did any pvp in my life
all u people thinking classic will be p2w, answer me this: what items can they put on the shop that i cant get ingame somehow, that will also let them win over me?
Linked 2 videos above, watch them, then you see.....
how about you answer the question I asked instead of dodging it, go on, im waiting for that gamebreaking p2w item they will add to the shop
the only bad thing I can think of is 10% blind\silence godstones, and I would take those on whales instead of +20 runes and ult forms +260 crit damage ANY day of the week
all u people thinking classic will be p2w, answer me this: what items can they put on the shop that i cant get ingame somehow, that will also let them win over me?
Hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahah
until which patch the game will be available? 2.7?AP RELATED items on shop?bundles on the shop regarding stones?Are u kidding me?i could go through whole detail based on past experience with our friend here GF so ye..
I can get all of that from playing, try again
all u people thinking classic will be p2w, answer me this: what items can they put on the shop that i cant get ingame somehow, that will also let them win over me?
New Updates are coming, don’t panic! With 7.9 Pangea is back for example, more News will follow:
YES, finally the worst possible siege ever created is back in the best and most balanced time of Aion, wooo! 🤡
I'm in favor of the bot purely because there are so many important items to get with experience insignia's. If the bot wouldn't be there, it would be a mindless grind even for that with less rewards for the player.
Galeas You also know this is the reason the vote was in favor of bot system.
Now tell me why all those items cant be given in another more interactive way?
How about:
- Exp insignias from runatorium\dredgion\neviwind
- Exp insignias from pvp quests
- Exp insignias in literally every single time attack instance chest
I could go on but you get my point.
How in the world is anyone profiting from auto hunt system existing? help me understand
ps: if kinah sink is a reason to have people spend on exp extractors, then make the rewards from those things pots giving you 50% of your exp bar (a few of them like 5-6)
Oh and dont tell me its about online numbers, those numbers have nothing to do with Quarterly income
theres 4 ulti forms already, I dont get why giving one out in a f2p event (no rng) would be so bad?
Because all these 4 ult form are more or less the same. If you have one you wont (prolly) gamble to get it.
I mean yeah of course, im talking about the legendary forms like 10 different ones+irunin, its like 400 attack.
Im just saying at this point im almost sure taking a hit in ult form random box sales for playerbase increase would be worth it.
Its probably too late already though
theres 4 ulti forms already, I dont get why giving one out in a f2p event (no rng) would be so bad? people want the rest of the forms for the collections anyway.
Way too many people are quitting lately out of frustration and I honestly cant see this model being worth it for too much longer.
At this point I think doing a "welcome back event" with ulti form as end reward would actually make profit for them, more so than any RNG muscle AND LUNG CAPACITY INCREASING ulti form random box on the shop
Since attack doesnt scale linearly vs defense values, there comes a point where u have so much attack compared to your targets defense that crit will always give you more dps.
But its more complicated than that when you factor in that crit also gives you less % increase per crit manastone the more crit you get.
To give an extreme and easy example would be:
You will always have more dps on a boss with 25 000 defense from attack stones.
On the contrary you will always do more dps on a lower end boss with 5000 defense from crit manastones.
There used to be a spreadsheet for different boss defense values and what manastone setup would be optimal for each class on each boss but that probably isnt updated anymore.
For pvp you basicly either have a higher rate of crits or a lower rate of crits which do more damage.
in a perfect world you slot full attack and every time you engage on someone you roll that 35% crit every single hit.
in the end its all up to preference and who you're fighting against and what defense they have.
ok now we have an event :o Pog
Can we have something worth our time from an event at some point? I dont mind doing the work, but I want to have something, anything from spending time doing what is supposed to be a rare event.
With how the event is right now its all just trash RNG where 99% of players will be frustrated with no rewards or bad ones from the few who manage to drop hammers.
I fail to see the event part here?
Galeas the new Ancient Fragment Of Memory drop in nara and minionite instances are a nice addition but aren't they a bit useless as something to work towards when you are still limited to 2 ancient breaths monthly per account?
Are we going to get more of them? unlimited amount would be nice as the fragments are limited already, and you would have to work for it and pay for any reset of those instances.
Even if the breaths were unlimited some people are already saying this addition is a joke and really if we have 2 breaths monthly I cant really defend it either
Galeas is something happening to veteran rewards tomorrow? im hearing some rumors.
Also can we have patchnotes today?:D
