28.10.2020 on Korea - Classic Server Discussions

  • Anyway if we compare the classic and the live server i think the p2w of classic are far from reaching the p2w to the live server. (it's my personal opinion)

    This comparsion makes no sense at all. Gameforge hat nearly 9 years to reach that p2w level we have on retail nowadays.

    If you like to compare, then compare the p2w at original AION start 2009 and the p2w at AION classic start 2020, that makes sense. Or wait for the p2w at AION classic europe start..... ;)

    I don't remember any p2w back in 2009. Things got started in 2012 when Aion went f2p in NA and EU but I wouldn't say it was p2w either. In EU people were arguing about how bad GP is for this game and in NA they started selling stuff only available to those who paid directly. Back then you could easily farm kinah to buy one GP every month, and I wish that was the only problem with Aion today. Things got more visible near the end of 4.x, which was almost half of Aion lifetime.


    Since someone was asking me about this a few weeks ago and I barely login anymore to check it out, I'll detail it here. I know people complain how bad the game was back then, because for many it was the first time experiencing p2w games or NC games for that matter. So many were vocal everywhere on social media, advertising not to play here. Nobody is denying that the game went downhill and it wasn't p2w, because it was. Back in NA, the land of the 'truly free', where you didn't get restrictions like trading and other essential things, it was better, right? Not really. Players back then, little did they knew that GF did manage to do it better here, at least better than NA where I've played for quite some years. Players were always comparing the p2w times with the good old days under NC West when the game was with subscription. I was really enjoying pvp but back then in NA they started selling things exclusively through shop, things that you couldn't trade, which was affecting the pvp players. At first they introduced wings with very good stats and the best titles. Those wings and best titles were available in EU as well but under veteran rewards, which everyone had access more or less, if you had kinah to buy GPs. Later they started with omegas and temperings, being exclusive to shop because the advertised drop in open world was rarer than godstones drop. Those could be traded but on broker were very expensive, a few times over the EU prices. Those were on top of the optional monthly subscription, which gave benefits to the pvp players, with extra entries and other things. On EU players were protesting about the removable of 100% apes from luna and I wish that was my problem in NA. On EU players had constant hero trials with good rewards, bringing all those scarce and needed apes and serums. The events were better, when those shugo instances were giving lots of apes/serums, luna and more. I was playing on most populated server in NA and it was hard to farm freely, and since NA introduced paid transfers some players were gearing up alts on dead servers very easily and got them to their main server, also transfering some important things. It was more and more imbalanced for the pvp players. It was a lot easier to level up on EU in 5.x when the xp was hard, with those xp events and ap every other week, and lodas and stars and other things from hero trials. There was even more p2w but kinah was very easy to make, items were all around from either VR or elite rewards. EU kept some of the pvp stats from those newly added items, removed the one shot pet skill thing that was happening in NA, lowered the maximum enchantment. This made pvp more manageable in EU. Crafting was a lot easier with those craft events we had on EU.


    From my experience EU was a much better experience than NA up till the end of 5.x times. Even the swarms of bots and tons of spam messages alone could make you quit NA back then, not just the other things. Then Aion was getting f2p in KR, NA shop got revamped and both EU and NA were starting to sell mostly the same things in the shop, with the exceptions of many skins in NA but EU being more expensive in general. NA also started to do better on events and some of the features. Right now NA is giving you a better experience, although in both regions the game is collapsing.


    Now I understand Rinnie's point of view. Less p2w was better than p2w that we have now. It's still p2w but experienced pvp players like him in the past, with a lot of free time, will not have a problem catching up to p2w players if the p2w is moderate as it was years ago. For the average players to casual players by time, it might be difficult. If you're a p2w player, you don't have to worry about crafting scrolls, which cost a lot of kinah to master the profession and a lot of kinah to farm and to buy them constantly. Every bit of p2w help in any direction helps a lot with spending less times on things that are time consuming. The others with moderate time playing, they have to split the time to farm kinah for leveling their professions, to spend time gathering aether and other resources, to spend time crafting and selling, so less time for pvp and gearing up. This directly impact the possibility of getting AP and ranks for some players, if that is what they want. Every little bit helps, even better pots from the shop since 1 damage can make the difference between life and death sometimes.


    I think the limit of when p2w is bad is when they will do it like in the past, putting wings and best titles and maybe best mounts and other things in the shop, as I remember that mounts were quite relevant. Let's not forget that Aion 6.0 started with a lot of hype in KR, players coming back to the new Aion. They had optional subscription model with some modest shop at the start. Aion classic has subscription and a shop, which is a controversial topic already. Once they start adding events and event items in the shop, as they always do these days on main servers, it's basically like taking the exact same path as Aion 6.0 and forward. From my point of view, NC just can't restrains themselves to not go that path again and again with every game they have and probably see this classic as a temporary source of income, because they have plenty of other new games coming out anyway.


    As for when it comes, this just doesn't depend on the publishers. If you watch RU for example, they say when they get files for patches from NC, and it can be a month, two months or even more for just a patch. Then there is the localization, testing, bug fixing, adding new stuff members for a new game, a new website for a new project and so on. It will take more time for NC to build complete oversea version for something I might consider a new game because it has quite some changes. Sometimes RU is not that far ahead of EU, and NC West, having only one language as well as RU, had patch releases after EU for quite many times. If anything, I think Galeas posted a way too optimistic timeline and it will take more. We will see. I guess I will be wishing you happy new year since I don't bother much with this Aion anymore and forums.

    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

  • The first p2w element that popped up in the shop before GF took over, if I remember correctly, was the 100% socketing aid.


    I remember cus' all 6 used to blow up on fail.

  • You don't have to agree with me.
    I play in KR aswell, the amount of p2w is similar in KR as in EU.

    Thats not an opinion, it's a fact.

    It is clearly an opinion. It might ALSO be an fact- only if it's correct. As I'm lazy to verify it I will just take it for granted and assume that's correct.


    However, there's some more facts you seems to miss (with a proof of it being a case after a "-"):

    • Gameforge can modify the rewards from the events - they added for example chance for ulti form in the anniversary event, and iirc they also modified rewards in one of the currently running events.
    • Gameforge can modify the rates - they increased success rates of stigma enchanting even outside the events and added a safepoint
    • Gameforge can pick which events are to be run in the europe - there are countless events they skipped or released way later. As an example they didn't run 1 of the anniversary events which was giving decent rewards

    Also some of things I can't exactly prove, but they're pretty much related to the common sense it's hard to think things are working different:

    • Gameforge can decide what items will be put in shop, and for what price - they cannot put all the skins due to copyright issues (for example hello kitty skins) but they seems to have no problem to putting majority of items (either in direct sale or in rng box)

    All the things above leads me to an opinion, that they really could make the game f2p, just by adjusting the events and the shop. Due to that, they are also to be blamed for p2w of our version (especially considering that all non asian publishers already did their steps to improve the quality of the game they publish be it via adding ulti form fragments via pvp content (RU) or causing obtaining lower rarity form impossible while fusing (NA)).

  • you all forgetting one thing, they can do whatever they want with the game, despite the "promise" of being a classic server.


    6.0 was supposed to be a "new dawn" and look how that turned out.


    Once they captivate you they will change the game.

    in 1.9 I don't remember any of that bs window for subscribers, do you? there you have it.


    First, they captivate u "hey guys, no p2w, just a little window for subscribers, nothing game-breaking"


    A couple of patches down the line, enchant your login screen/char name, etc +15 to enter the amazing classic aion.

  • how about you answer the question I asked instead of dodging it, go on, im waiting for that gamebreaking p2w item they will add to the shop

    Even though you seem dead set on thinking AP items will not influence anything (which is wrong, but you are entitled to your ridiculous opinion) those will be the main culprit. Combine that with large amounts of high level mana- and enchantment stones as well as appropriate socketing aids and boom, this will impact PvP for a very long time.


    I'm guessing here but let me just say you appear as though you've never played the older versions where the AP grind for PvP gear was real so excuse me when I say you may not be the most qualified person to try and be a nuisance here.

    "I'm the wrong kind of people, why'd you listen to me?"


    <Parts of signature removed due to being true>

  • how about you answer the question I asked instead of dodging it, go on, im waiting for that gamebreaking p2w item they will add to the shop

    Even though you seem dead set on thinking AP items will not influence anything (which is wrong, but you are entitled to your ridiculous opinion) those will be the main culprit. Combine that with large amounts of high level mana- and enchantment stones as well as appropriate socketing aids and boom, this will impact PvP for a very long time.


    I'm guessing here but let me just say you appear as though you've never played the older versions where the AP grind for PvP gear was real so excuse me when I say you may not be the most qualified person to try and be a nuisance here.

    bro, u can literally search "rinnie aion" and get some answers lmao.

    I dont think manastones and AP in the shop would be a good thing, dont get me wrong, but it wont make the game p2w enough for it to matter.

    And its not even 5% of todays p2w


    oh ye i played since release btw

  • but it wont make the game p2w enough for it to matter.


    This, my friend, is why I initially suggested you might not be suited to voice those things here.


    It is exactly the reason why the retail version deteriorated into its current animated-suspense-state. Saying "it is acceptable" opens leeway for more extreme measures to be taken because it gives the people in charge a reason to believe they are on the right track. And since you, allegedly, played "since release btw" you should know where that road took us.


    e: typo found and purged

    "I'm the wrong kind of people, why'd you listen to me?"


    <Parts of signature removed due to being true>

  • im just as suited to voice my opinion as any of you.

  • I never stated you are forbidden from speaking your mind, I am merely saying the things you are suggesting are problematic in the context of monetising a game that has the audacity to call itself "free to play". Especially in regards to past experiences we all had with our dear publisher and how they, uh, handle things.

    This is obviously always a topic that creates hot takes and yours are served straight out of the lake of fire. So what I am proposing here is: please be more careful around this and don't just spout the first thing that comes to mind.


    Anyway this is getting slightly off-topic here so I will not continue any further. Have a nice day and maybe reconsider some things. Otherwise you might make some usually pretty reasonable people upset and label yourself as a troll.

    "I'm the wrong kind of people, why'd you listen to me?"


    <Parts of signature removed due to being true>

  • I never stated you are forbidden from speaking your mind, I am merely saying the things you are suggesting are problematic in the context of monetising a game that has the audacity to call itself "free to play". Especially in regards to past experiences we all had with our dear publisher and how they, uh, handle things.

    This is obviously always a topic that creates hot takes and yours are served straight out of the lake of fire. So what I am proposing here is: please be more careful around this and don't just spout the first thing that comes to mind.


    Anyway this is getting slightly off-topic here so I will not continue any further. Have a nice day and maybe reconsider some things. Otherwise you might make some usually pretty reasonable people upset and label yourself as a troll.

    [...] :scensored:


    adding to the actual topic tho; everyone has a different opinion on when a game would be too p2w for them, for me that line isnt crossed from pretty much everything in the classic database.

    The line is crossed for me when I realistically cant just play the game every day and be somewhat competitive, which current 7.7 wont let you at all with all of this: let me copy paste from a comment i did somewhere


    it just needs to remove transformations, transformation collections, item collections, runes, odians, Ascension Jam, luna stats, re identification, event-only items, skin skills, minions and cubes.


    none of these items are thing you can realistically farm towards by just playing, let alone play another class after an event with an event only skill has passed (???)

    All of this also doesnt factor in how much less gear actually mattered in older patches, where you very easily won using 40e gear vs someone using 50e gear if you were the better player.


    Edited by Volveremos: :offtopic:

  • for me that line isnt crossed from pretty much everything in the classic database.

    The above.

    Classic doesn't even have a p2w model so there is no point in speculating because the game simply doesn't allow it.
    Aion classic looks very promising, servers are full for a reason and I'll look forward to play in EU.

    But be on time, when the servers are full you will be left out :)

  • for me that line isnt crossed from pretty much everything in the classic database.

    The above.

    Classic doesn't even have a p2w model so there is no point in speculating because the game simply doesn't allow it.
    Aion classic looks very promising, servers are full for a reason and I'll look forward to play in EU.

    But be on time, when the servers are full you will be left out :)

    How is an extra season pass with locked items not P2W? Are we operating on a different understanding of the term P2W?


    Locked items that you need to buy with real money is P2W. We can have a discussion about the severity of it, but it's still P2W. Buying a bag full of scrolls, potions, 10k AP, manastones and what not gives you a clearcut advantage over players that don't buy it.


    It's literally paying to win. If you're fine with the extend of P2W that's fine with me, but it doesn't change that nature of it.


    For me personally, if the EU version has ANY cash shop element that let's players buy anything other than cosmetic items on top of a subscription, I'm out. Take my 15 bucks monthly, let me buy some cool skins and keep it at that, nothing else.

    Edited once, last by Rastekkel ().

  • For me personally, if the EU version has ANY cash shop element that let's players buy anything other than cosmetic items on top of a subscription, I'm out. Take my 15 bucks monthly, let me buy some cool skins and keep it at that, nothing else.

    Thats a very respectable opinion, and I hard agree. but looking at what we have now compared to classic, even classic with p2w is 3000% better


  • I really hope that we get a big cash shop. I don´t have that much time to play, but I want to play on the first rows. So I´ll spend as much as I need to compensate the time I can´t spend.

    If you don´t want to spend that´s ok, but let ppl cash as much as they want!

  • ...

    The line is crossed for me when I realistically cant just play the game every day and be somewhat competitive, which current 7.7 wont let you at all with all of this: let me copy paste from a comment i did somewhere

    Not true, you can PVP while not having everything maxed. I'm with kata gear +10 and its not impossible to play. Sure you wont 1 shot everyone, and you might loose (or not) vs more geared people, but u can definitely be competitive to a certain degree

  • It's a matter of judgment.
    #
    What is Pay2Win for you?
    Are Manastones, 100% Manastone Socketing Aid,
    or Godstones, also Abby's points if these can also drop in the game also pay2win?
    It is clear to me that List is not a pay to win.
    Even if you can buy it for money in the in-game shop
    Or rather items that cannot be bought, earned and manufactured in-game?


    But things that are otherwise not kept in the game itself, as is now the case with retail AION.
    But they are also too important to be able to keep up.
    Yes these are Pay2Win.

    Of course, everyone who played back then knows what I mean by that, but the cash shop whales will keep the retail AION alive so I don't worry about it ....


    In the Past starting with NC Soft & Subscription Model

    (what I called) "the good old days":

    I do not see everything that was (quickly) available earlier in the game and was also available in the in-game shop as pay2win

    (e.g. speed, scrolls with spell / attack speed, mounts, jam and AP items on my part are not Pay2win "one gives time to get everything, the other saves time and spends money to get it" that is not pay2win).You shouldn't ignore the monthly rewards either,

    not the crap with the 80normal +20 Elite Rewards that we have now.

    Back then you had to wait for the month to get them, you couldn't even buy your way immediately up like now!

    But all that later only has to be bought in the shop and that otherwise requires many weeks of ingame activity (* weeks or months) to receive this is pay2win.


    To deprive us of the opportunities to earn our Kinah as in the past, for example by crafting, collecting and loot in the OW and everything that is necessary to advance in the ranking, to do these things in the shop, is nothing more than clear pay2win!



    I really hope that we get a big cash shop. I don´t have that much time to play, but I want to play on the first rows. So I´ll spend as much as I need to compensate the time I can´t spend.

    If you don´t want to spend that´s ok, but let ppl cash as much as they want!

    Eddit :


    Let us be clear .

    Ca$hing is not the problem:thumbup: Pay2Win is it:thumbdown: !

    Like I say :

    "one gives time to get everything, the other saves time and spends money to get it" that is not pay2win)

    Edited 3 times, last by Doris ().

  • NCS and GF both brought their fair share of p2w, and people's definition of p2w is also a sliding scale. Some might say that anything other than cosmetics is p2w, while others are ok with 100% socketing aids and some consumables in the shop as long as there's no gear in it.


    I personally think classic will be good (at least while it's within patches where you could outplay an opponent with more gear than you), though something like rng boxes in the shop with stuff like 10% 10s silence gs will be a major turn-off. Manastone bundles and the like should be confined to events only, and related event items should only be obtainable through actually playing.

  • For me personally, if the EU version has ANY cash shop element that let's players buy anything other than cosmetic items on top of a subscription, I'm out. Take my 15 bucks monthly, let me buy some cool skins and keep it at that, nothing else.

    Thats a very respectable opinion, and I hard agree. but looking at what we have now compared to classic, even classic with p2w is 3000% better

    classic without p2w became what we have now.

  • classic without p2w became what we have now.

    Thanks to p2Win, what we started from the classic became what it is now..:puke:


    The Aion that I used to like so much to the Aion that I don't like anymore...:nono:

    The only way to arouse my interest is and remains a classic that I can play again without p2win.:ugly:
    If this possibility is not considered by GF then I am completely gone.:tea:

  • The discussion if AION classic korea is p2w or not is completely unrelevant. We don´t get AION classic korea, if we get something at all it will be Gameforge´s AION classic europe and if Gameforge doesn´t change their complete policy they had last years, we all know where the train will go to.


    yoska said it some posts ago: